I'd like to make peace with the sniper kit

**MoreGooder** · 06-27-2008, 01:36 PM

I need some convincing. I'd like to be able to enjoy TF2, but my vocal disdain for the sniper class is making my hobby less and less enjoyable for everyone.

I have no arguement against someone reluctantly playing the sniper class because one uber sniper has 5 people dominated and simply must be countered. I have respect for that, just as I have respect for reluctant politicians (rare in this day and age). However, I just can't garner any support or admiration for the habitual sniper. In my mind, the sniper has a huge negative image, regardless of the game.

The TF2 developers did one thing right: The spy class is arguably the best sniper counter out there, but it seems like there are only a handfull of good spies, and I"m not one of them.

Has the sniper class been carried forward from one FPS to the next so that the other players can have someone to despise? Surely there must be another reason. Help me find it please. I'd like to hear some good, positive comments from snipers. I'm tired of cussing out players just because they're enjoying the game the way they think that is fun for them.

I'm not asking for hate replies. I'm asking for someone to explain to me what goes on in the mind of a sniper that makes it enjoyable. If the reasons are sound, perhaps I'll select the sniper kit on occasion as well.

**BHack** · 06-27-2008, 02:19 PM

I hate [good] snipers. In fact, the only reason I sometimes play it is to hopefully piss enough people off so that when I finally make my manifesto post about how I would like to remove the sniper class from our server I have more support.

Also, I hate playing against crank when he's a spy. OK, actually I just hate dying to anything in 1 shot, no matter what it is. I realize I feel the same sort of frustration when I get a non crit pipe bomb in the face that the game decided was going to be powerful enough to kill me, a fully healed 150 health medic, in one smack. The game did this by entering a seed into a random number generator function, the seed was probably the time, in milliseconds. So, if I had been hit a millisecond later, I might not have died.

Thanks, this thread had been therapeutic.

juiCe · 06-27-2008, 02:25 PM

I don't focus on the sniper kit, but when I do play it, I like taking out important targets like Heavies, Medics, and buildings. Sniper wars, on the other hand, I hate (because snipers don't seem like an important target unless you think of it as saving your own heavy/meds).

What about the sniper bothers you so much?

RedForman · 06-27-2008, 03:19 PM

I dunno, nothing pleases me more than sneaking up on some as Snipers as a heavy in Goldrush part 2 and mowing them down with the minigun to clear the way.

**Seancho** · 06-27-2008, 03:41 PM

the problem here is those of us who snipe are good if not great at it (im good, not great)

you've only had to deal with people who know how to aim. if you dealt with the cross eyed imbred yoakles more often, you wouldnt even notice the sniper class.

**icky** · 06-27-2008, 03:49 PM

The only things I don't like about the sniper kit are:
1. It isn't open to everyone. If an average player decides they would like to try sniper, and there is a good sniper on the other team, then they are completely wasting their time.

2. In some cases, the only counter is an equally good or better sniper, and if you've got nothing, you are screwed as a team.

What I like about the sniper kit is when I rocket jump up onto the battlements and knock 'em up in the air, landing my second rocket neatly at their feet.

cg_ · 06-27-2008, 04:40 PM

Generally the only time I play sniper is to try and counter another sniper that has killed me umpteen times in a row and im pissed off.

Its part of the game though so what can you do. Alot of the times there is an alternate way to get to a sniper, just gotta find it an approach with more diligency.

Im sure youve heard me on TS telling Santa I hate him lol.

Golden Salmon · 06-27-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icky

2. In some cases, the only counter is an equally good or better sniper, and if you've got nothing, you are screwed as a team.

I think this is an interesting point that is often not the fault of the sniper class itself. First off id like to say that i too hate snipers. However, i do not think the kit is even remotely overpowered. this may be biased however as i often play a hard counter too the sniper. I think part of the problem is just how the class is designed and how that design plays out. a snipers effectiveness is heavily affected by the quality of their sniper roost. there are a couple of maps where snipers basically have their run of the map because their roost is so easily defended ( mach in particular and to some extent 2fort ).

on the other hand you get a map like stag where sniping is still potent due to the open third point, but the side tunnels in both bases allow attacking scouts and spies to access the roost unimpeded. this makes it easy to shut snipers down on this map and a few snipers on our server are reluctant to snipe on this map.

basically what im saying is that natural defenses that are built into the map often determine how effective a sniper can be, and sometimes designers need to take a better look at how they're setting up sniper roosts.

**BaneII** · 06-27-2008, 05:27 PM

I will agree that the Sniper class is a bit overpowered. I was playing around on a practice map the other day with bots leaping through the air and was amazed at the number of headshots that I was getting. Now I'm an average sniper and was getting three headshots in a row with moving targets in the air. The head hitbox is a little too lenient for my tastes. And add to the fact the full body shots taking most folks down is overkill. Since the game works on instant hits and there is no kind of bullet travel time, this is what I think takes the skill out of the game in comparison to sniping in Battlefield 2.

Anyway, the real reason that the majority of the time a Sniper is dominating the other team is that no one will go and kill him. Usually they stand in the same place over and over again and no one will go over and just kill them. The team acts like there is this invisible barrier that prevents them from walking up and killing them. Since Snipers have tunnel vision, it's very easy to walk up to them and put them down. The only thing I can guess is that people are afraid and think that only Spies and Snipers can kill another Sniper.

I'll give you an example. Was playing BLU on Gold Rush and Santa was sitting in his usual spot in the building 2nd floor on the upper right. As usual, he was devastating our team and I kept telling my teammates to go up and kill him. No one did, he continued his killing spree, and I ran out to the building as a Medic, bonesawed an Engineer who was building a sentry gun, bonesawed the sentry gun, then went upstairs and bonesawed Santa. Of course he came back again and I had to go back to the same place and kill him again and ended up dominating him. So why couldn't any of the combat classes do the same thing I was doing? Way more easier to jump up to the second floor and kill him from there than for me running through the enemy's frontline as a Medic. I was even chatting with Santa after the domination to tell him how sad it was for a team's Medic to have to do anti-Sniper work. I was probably the only person on our side to have him dominated. So what's the problem here?

I would suggest that instead of disdaining the Sniper class, go and play it. Lots of times a player doesn't know how to counter a class because they aren't familiar with it's strengths and weaknesses.

**ANGELofDEATH** · 06-27-2008, 06:25 PM

I play a different game, but the topic the same, no matter the game.

I too hate snipers.. and not the ones who can shoot me, but the ones on my team who wont kill anyone, especially the snipers on the other team.

One of the reasons that I gravitated to the 5th, instead of any other IHS, was the total lack of snipers in our squads.

I can see the use of the sniper class.. and like Santa and Mantis.. some people can just pwn with any gun... but the good that players like Santa and mantis can do as any other class outweighs any good you do as a sniper.
(Santa, I realize your shitty rig was holding you back :P but you know what I mean)

What Gooder and myself really want to know is WHY you want to snipe?
What is it? The thrill of one shotting someone from distance? Is it lack of talent in close quarters? Just wanting to "hunt people"?.. not being sarcastic here.. totally serious.
I snipe once in a while, If I pick up one by accident.. But I dont go out of the way to find a roost to hide... I like the front lines.