Canal Zone Strategies

**Santa** · 07-26-2008, 11:05 PM

I think the other thread is more for feedback to Vilepickle, so this thread will be more for stategy. Here is an overhead view of the entire canal zone playing area. Two spawns, 8 CPs. Arrows show access points from one area to another. Blue arrow is water access.

When you first run around in this map, it seems like the best individually skilled players will win as there are 8 CPs and you have to hold 5 of them for 51% of the time to win. But since the CPs are often very close together, this isnt necessarily true.

The way I see it, the team that holds fountain has the greatest chance of winning. Lets pretend we are red. If you lock down fountain with a sentry gun where I drew the big circle and have it supported by heavy/med and perhaps some soldiers, you can then have good access to enough CPs to win. With fountain, you are very close to Small Warehouse, Library, and Balcony. That easily, you have 4 CPs within close enough proximity that a TEAM rather than individuals can defend. With 4 CPs, you are at worst tied with the enemy. Since red warehouse can be defended by newly spawned players, thats 5. Further still, you can even hold arch room easily since its connected to library. If thats not enough, scouts can even cause chaos at the opposition's Warehouse.

If that doesnt really make sense, think of it this way. You are locking down a very easily defendable position at the fountain that allows you to hold 4 CPs, essentially ensuring the enemy cant beat you. From there, all you have to do is hold enough other CPs (one of which is 'yours', Red Warehouse) to beat the other team.

Yesterday I know arf was contending that Library is the best to hold since its centrally located. Although thats true, and I wouldnt mind rolling with a strategy like that, Library seems like it would be far more difficult to defend than Fountain, and Fountain is only a few meters south.

Anyway, you can clearly see there are a TON of strategies you could do. I could see a Blu team going for a Library hold and having a choke point at the Boathouse/RedWarehouse connection. Theres a host of other possibilities. I think it will be important for one person to become very vocal very early and try to organize where your "main" CP will be. Then explain how this CP will grant you access to enough CPs to get the victory.

**PANDAmonium** · 07-27-2008, 05:00 PM

Nice paint job.

In all seriousness though, I think both Library and fountain are viable. I'm leaning toward Fountain myself, but that's only because I prefer wider battle spaces, meaning I find it easier to defend those. A good uber will crush a Library based defense, while there's enough room for blowback to mess up an uber at the Fountain.

**Hephador** · 07-28-2008, 12:52 AM

I haven't had a chance to run around on it yet. But at first glance, it would seem to be a map where teleporters will be even more handy than usual.

Edit: After playing it tonight, it became glaringly obvious teleporters are almost useless on this map because of the random spawn to any of the control points your team controls.

Random Thoughts: Based on tonight's rounds, Library seemed to quickly shape up as THE point to hold. It's really easy to branch out from but a slight pain to hold with all the entrances and the elevator to the roof.

Didn't seem like sentries played a major role at all.

**PANDAmonium** · 07-28-2008, 07:25 AM

Hephador has a cool avatar in steam.

**Santa** · 07-28-2008, 08:37 AM

Yeah ill concede that Library proved more valuable. Arf is now my God. Fountain is a close second though since its so easy to defend, especially if you have Library from above.

I think a sentry gun either on the rooftop of Library, on the overhang at Library where Icky's was, or across from that covering Fountain would be ideal. If its on any other CP, its too easy to simply ignore that CP. If the sentry is at Library, I think the heavy/med combo has got to protect it. Its not like theyre gonna be fast enough to get around capping, so they might as well plop themselves down on the most important point, library, and hopefully protect the sentry a bit. Besides, Library is a heavy's wet dream.

thundeer · 07-28-2008, 09:47 AM

Hahah was just looking at the PoE topic, fountain reminds me of campsite on spies like us XD

Played it for the first time tonight, worked out better than I thought, for a while beatnik (pyro) and I (soldier) were able to hold library and archroom by ourselves; he'd stay on the point capping while I flanked the returning defenders or vice versa. Those two points go well together because they're really close, with a nice health pack in between; we didn't even need a medic. Soldier is a fun class to play on this map because rocketjumping gets you everywhere in a hurry; I'm pretty sure I surprised quite a few people popping up all of a sudden

**icky** · 07-28-2008, 04:29 PM

Well after taking it upon myself to be the sacrificial engineer on this map (10-19), I have to say that a prominent sentry defending a CP is probably not worth the effort. It is impossible for an engineer to effectively defend his own sentry, and I generally found myself being burned to death right beside my L3 sentry, because the map is all corners. The only way to maintain a sentry in a prominent position is to have a dedicated team of 2-3 guys defending it. This may be worth it, but I'm not too sure.

However, I believe that sentries can make a valuable contribution by cutting off flanking routes and catching solo point cappers by surprise. A big part of the difficulty of playing this map is not knowing where the attackers will come from. Scouts can hit and run, and they have so many directional options that you are very unlikely to kill them. Sentries in the right locations will narrow the options for the attackers.

**Hephador** · 07-28-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icky

However, I believe that sentries can make a valuable contribution by cutting off flanking routes and catching solo point cappers by surprise. A big part of the difficulty of playing this map is not knowing where the attackers will come from. Scouts can hit and run, and they have so many directional options that you are very unlikely to kill them. Sentries in the right locations will narrow the options for the attackers.

Tough to justify using engy though when the sentry gun's effectiveness is severely cut and the teleporters are next to worthless in the current spawn configuration (though it seems Vile is going to overhaul that aspect). And as to your idea of using the sentries to guard flanking routes, the engineer will still have to hang nearby and defend it from spies. And with all the possible routes to take, the opposing team may just choose to bypass the sentry altogether if the other defenses of a point are limited.

With the special abilities' effectiveness greatly reduced and the engy's limited firepower, it seems like playing engy is only going to remove a valuable player from the mix no matter how he's utilized...especially in a 24-player game. Unless that engy is the baddest mother with a shotgun this side of Ash from the Evil Dead movies.

While he won't necessarily rack up the kills even a short-lived sentry gun would, a decent pyro should be able to slow a flanking attempt or a cap by a lone scout long enough for help to arrive. And he'll still be mobile enough to be used at other points in an emergency.

**Beatnik** · 07-28-2008, 11:23 PM

I don't know. From the other teams' perspective, those sentries sucked last night. They kept us off of Fountain for the most part. It seemed to me like they played a semi-significant role in helping you guys win.

**Tarheel** · 07-29-2008, 12:39 AM

I know it sucks playing engy when your stuff is getting blown up every time you get it built up, but sometimes it's a lot more useful than you think it is at the time.

Like some of those build - blowup - rebuild guns at key points on other maps, it provides a focus for the enemy team that they keep pouring significant resources into taking down, or it denies them the area in question if they don't devote those resources. If you can keep getting it rebuilt without them taking the area, it's probably worthwhile slapping it back up. It's a PITA for the engy, for sure, but if your gun is a bigger PITA to the other team, perhaps it's worth it for the team.

As far as teleporters, I was wondering if they might be useful for something a bit different - rather than from spawn to the frontlines, perhaps from Library to Fountain (or vice versa) when your team controls those points. The team could then shift the bulk of their force from one to the other depending on what the enemy did. Of course without two engys, it'd be a one-way trip. I have no idea if it'd actually be useful, but might be worth a shot sometime.