Rape maps are maps in which the majority of the time, well over 90%, one team gets completely destroyed regardless of skilled players or stacks, etc.Originally Posted by bleckuhffinity
These maps are: Fastlane, Turbine, Gold Rush, and in some cases Granary.
All these maps tend to be a steam roll win for one team.
I can't understand how symmetrical (like Fastlane, Turbine and Granary) maps can be defined like that. If the map's symmetrical (i.e. balanced), it's impossible to be one sided "regardless of skilled players". If it's symmetrical, it can only be one sided due to the differences in skill/teamwork on the two teams.
I *think* he's trying to say that some maps have a tendency to become one-sided because there is no way to regroup once you get pushed into your half. This, of course, doesn't happen regardless of skill, and including goldmine and turbine on that list doesn't make any sense.
The map just makes it impossible to push out once you lose the middle ground. Turbine being the best example:
Once your team loses the middle the other team will set up camp outside the entrances of the enemy base. Since there are only 3 entrances that can all be covered by practically the same area you can have three Demomen and a Sentry cover every possible exit. The only way a team can come back is to build three ubers out of the spawn and uber rush all the exits at the same time. Even then its not a guarantee. So with half the team on defense and the other on offense, you just need two ubers and you can grab the intel fairly easily. Since the other team can't leave its base, the only option they have is to turtle with 80% or more of there team dedicated to turtling.
And that is the key flaw of all the maps I mentioned (besides Gold Rush since that is just a complete map flaw), the map makes it impossible to push back out and encourages turtling when you are pushed back.
Fastlane suffers the same as Turbine, only three exits that are all covered by the same region.
Granary doesn't really fall into this category because it is too hard to turtle on the last point. Turbine and Fastlane cause a steamroll followed by a 30-45 minute stalemate at the end. Thats why these maps are terrible, its a quick map dominance then a slow and painfully drawnout last cap.
Its one of the few maps i actually agree with zoopy on. The third point is pretty bland to begin with, and once a team loses the middle its hard to take back because of the routes in. From your second CP, if you go left you are at a large disadvantage because you are at the bottom of a slope. If you go middle or right, your access to the third point is through a tiny door, which is again a large disadvantage. If you manage to get past these tough zones, you fight for CP3 on a relatively flat area which is boring to play on.
Also, just because a map is symmetrical doesnt mean both teams are always in similar situations. As I just pointed out above, once a team gets 3 its no longer symmetrical at all. In turbine, I think zoopy is trying to say that once a team holds the middle its pretty much all over, which tends to be true on our server, but I think that comes more from an unwillingness of one team to move into the middle in numbers because theyre defeatist and/or retarded. Everytime ive been on a turbine team thats hemmed into their own base, its because half the team stays in the base while the other half gets outnumbered 2 to 1 in the middle.
So, moral of the story is to make sure its map design and not team stupidity that makes a round unenjoyable for one side.
I've probably played turbine 100 times now, and there have only been a tiny number of cases where a team got pinned so badly that they couldn't reclaim the middle. And even out of those cases, there are some where the team which controlled the middle lost via spy caps.
But alas, that is off topic.
Teams getting pinned on turbine is entirely different from fastlane or other cp maps. In cp maps to come back you have to wipe out the other team while having enough people to capture and defend the point from the next counterattack. On turbine to break out of your base all you need to do is take down the sentry guns and you're on equal ground again as the spawn locations are the same. One uber demo is enough to take out two guns usually. If your team gets pinned in again then its because they're not moving out.
The situation is similar to how people complain of snipers dominating on certain maps. The only way snipers can do really well is if the other team is doing nothing to shut them down. On turbine if a team sits in their base and lets the other team build 2 sentries in the middle of turbine then they are screwed to begin with.
That's been my experience. It's not impossible by any means to break out on the relatively rare occassion you get stuck in your base. Usually it's a team balance or some propensity for the stuck team to turtle that results in games like that, not the dynamics of the map itself.
If it were map dynamics/construction at fault, every game played on that map would end up with one team dominating. As it is, maybe 10% of games (on Turbine and Granary at least) end up in that situation.
Well in my experience about 87% of the time it is a 3-0 win and about 8% of the time its 3-1.
I personally like it. What i like the best is that you can go straight to E to cap it right away or fight your way through other points. Its a bit different then the run of your mill maps and it makes splitting up more effective.
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