Vilepickle

The map dom_canalzone_b1 has been updated to beta 2. Please update your game servers to the latest version.

Screenshots:
http://vilepickle.com/map/screens/tf2_dom_canalzone

Downloads:
http://vilepickle.com/map/dom_canalzone_b2.7z (7zip, 9mb)
http://vilepickle.com/map/dom_canalzone_b2.zip (zip, 21mb)
http://vilepickle.com/map/dom_canalzone_b2.bsp.bz2 (bz2, for server admins)

README for changes:
http://vilepickle.com/map/readmes/RE..._canalzone.txt

Canalzone was a QuakeWorld Team Fortress map with 8 control points. Players had to bring flags to the CP's and as this happened the team's overall score increased based on the number of points obtained.

Dom_canalzone is a remake of this first Canalzone map by David Sawyer (NOT the Team Fortress Classic version cz2 with 5 points). It uses the Domination game mode created by TheBladeRoden. In this game mode, players capture control points like other TF2 maps, but as they do so they score more points over time (as shown as a percentage score on the HUD). Whoever reaches 100% domination first wins the round. Teams can also win by capturing all 8 control points. Spawn points are dynamic, in that as you capture CP's, you gain more spawn locations and the other team loses those spawn points if they had them.

This version of domination does not include the jail system typical of other dom maps due to a bug in the original game type. Players always have spawn points in their team's base.

Beatnik

Updated.

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thundeer

I don't see how having 8 capture points simultaneously lends itself to a team effort. Alright, let's think of it in terms of BF2 bleed. You have to hold at least 5 I'm assuming? So you want 5 teams of 2 (assuming a 10-person team), each on a point. heavy-medic, blowback pyro-engy, soldier-scout for capping, the occasional uber, which is not really necessary because with so many doorways and corners it's too easy for a soldier/demo to knock out a sentry. Plus everyone's so spread out and the spawn is never nearby that once you die it's impossible to keep a gun up/keep defending a point.

But I thought TF2 was a game about the entire team working together? Plus what usually happens is you get everyone on the team going for a point by themselves or as a group of 2 or 3, capping it, and going to the next point for some whackamole.

The only time you see enemies, there's a good chance it's someone running from their spawn to a point, or from a point to another point instead of actually sitting on a point defending it/attacking it.

I can kind of see how this could be a good competitive map, but is 8 points really necessary? Why not cut it down to 5, or even better, 3 cap points? You can even keep the same map design, just pick a few that are decently spaced, and you'll still have battles over certain locations.

As some of you can remember, circlejerk never really worked out on our server. In theory it was simple: half the team defends, half the team attacks. But it never really happened. I get the feeling this will happen too, because in TF2 everyone's too accustomed to the same mentality: attack or defend a single objective together, or go lonewolf for the kills.

Santa

Thats pretty much what I figured when I first played the map, but now that ive played it twice (well 4 times since beatnik loaded it two times in a row) I actually think its a very cool map.

Most of the CPs are VERY close to eachother. It also appears that one or two of the CPs connect to the rest. So, instead of simply having 5 teams of 2 on each CP, you setup a "base" at one of the CPs, lets say fountain. From here, you branch out to the other CPs to defend them, and pretty much leave the ones farthest from the enemy spawn poitn undefended. Only fall back to those once they start getting capped, as they probably wont be able to get a sizeable force there anyway. Although I have limited knowledge of the map, im thinking a heavy/med combo with a sentry gun and maybe a little bit more support could lock down the fountain CP, while the rest of the team branches out to the close by CPs. From there, it just takes a lot of communication amongst everyone to nail down where people have to be in order to react to what the opposition is doing.

Basically, I think youll have to think of this map much less as what CPs do you have and if they are all simultaneously defended, but what zones do you have and can you get to different CPs together.

This map, at least so far, seems to have an incredible amount of potential for a lot of different reasons. First, its one of the few maps that seems to have a huge strategic component (read above) seldom seen in the tactically minded TF2. Second, it seems to accommodate all 9 classes well. Third, despite having 8 CPs, its still very much a tactically minded map as the team that stays more or less together will probably win. Also, its VERY well polished. This is stock map caliber polish, much like steel in that regard.

By the by, I think circle jerk didnt end up being too popular because the gamemode was needlessly complicated and silly. Even after playing it a lot, it was difficult to tell which CP you had to defend and attack at any given time, especially at the start of the map. Even if you did know where to go, the defense CP and the offense CP were often at polar ends of the map. If that wasnt enough, the CPs themselves weren't very creative.

Vilepickle

I kind of had your mentality as well with the teamplay, but after playing it several times so far it's been pretty good. The reason 8 CP's won't change is because TFC did that with cz2, and others are already making a cz2. The people I was making this map for specifically wanted the QWTF version with 8 points.

There is a definite shift in emphasis over traditional TF2 maps in that it's based more on capturing than just pure DM, though the DM is important.

There are so many different strategies, as Santa said, to get and hold CP's that it's amazing. It does shift slightly to more individual efforts than an ENTIRE team effort due to more capturing going on and your individual ability in encounters mattering, but coordinating with the entire team increases your chances of success on the other end of the map 10-fold.

Santa

Vile, ive got one big suggestion for ya. Eliminate spawns at CPs other than the main. When you dont know where you will spawn or where your teammates will spawn, it makes it hard to group up together. Also, its a bit harder to setup a defense when the enemy can come from behind simply for being fortunate enough to have spawned behind you.

I think a good compromise, and one that would make the map even more interesting, is if the team that holds Library gets to spawn at Library. If you dont have library, you spawn at the home base. This will focus the battle a bit more since one of the CPs is a little more valuable than the others, but wont detract from the overall feel of it since you still need 4-5 CPs to be doing well.

Vilepickle

That seems like it could be a good idea. I might give spawn points to Library, Small Warehouse, Balcony, and Fountain though. The other side of the map (2 Warehouses, Boathouse, and Arch Room) sees a bit less activity. Or maybe just Library and Balcony since they're the "central" red/blue points that have high ground.

I personally feel that isolating people in a base could make the map more scout friendly, and it doesn't really need that. It could also promote some spawn camping.

Maybe instead of focusing on the 4 on that side of the map, just allow spawning at Library, Arch, Boathouse, Balcony? Those are the 4 central points on the map layout, the other 4 are outside of them.

icky

I would prefer to see people always spawning at their main base.

DownEast

Ok, I've played this about 3 times now, and I have to admit, it's starting to grow on me.

CONS:
Difficult to those unfamiliar with the layout (typical with complex maps)
Spawning location is not consistant or managable by player.
Class balance issues: Favors Scouts and Pyros, hard on Snipers and Engies

PROS:
Creates a great need for Team Work
It's a welcome change from the hum-drum of standard CP style maps.


SPAWN ISSUE SUGGESTION:
The largest issue now is as stated in the posts above, the Spawning. I never played the QWTF version, so I don't know what contrants you are under, but what if you go with a centralized spawn, and have passageways, or teleports, that go to 6 different regions within the map, one exit inbetween every 2 CPs. The exit to the passageway/teleports will be available as long as the enemy team doesn't control the 2 cap points on either side of the exit? 2 more passageway/teleport exits will probably be needed to lessen the chance of spawn camping, and they can be at each end of the map... Or something along those lines....

Overall, as I said, it's growing on me.

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icky

I have to say that the percentage scores don't have a very strong meaning for me when I play this map. Likewise for the little graphs, although they are a neat idea. I just find that they don't tell me anything about what I need to do.

I would far prefer a design which uses something close to the "ticket bleed" system. You need an indication of
1. How many CP's are held by each team
- this exists in the graphic at the bottom

2. Which team is in control
- it can be determined by the graphic, but would really benefit from better indicators
- a voice message indicating change of control would be awesome

3. Which team is winning/losing
- this is represented by the percentage and graphs, but it is hard to meaningfully gauge progress

4. How close you are to victory/defeat
- this is never very clear, because the rate of change of the values is unknown
- a number indicating the percentage of the map controlled by each team would help establish the rate of change, and would help with (1), above
- it is also unclear from the graphs because they grow to an unknown limit, a problem which could be solved by having them shrink down to 0